by garfielder
SUPERFLYPIMP wrote:
In the last few games I have witnessed a few racial techs that were over the top.
Specifically, mirror computing strikes me as far too strong, especially when combined with Trade II. I understand that it does not make sense to ever trade with Mentak if they achieve mirror computing, but if the trade II card is in play (my preferred version of trade), it does not make much difference. 3TGx2=6R/I per turn is far to powerful to ignore. There is not much reason to take any other strategy card if trade II is in play. At 5R, the racial tech is spendy, but easily pays for itself in 1-2 turns. The last two games I had with Mentak, the pirates were achieving 15-20 resources every turn (w/trade station and trade II) through TGs and planets, vs. everyone else 6-10R. I think this needs a houserule. Specifically, a limit on TGs that can benefit with respect to how TGs are acquired. Like pirated, transfab'd, and trade station acquired TGs can achieve double value, with legitimately traded TGs keeping normal value (reflects crime possibilities better). Just a thought. Mentak with mirror comp are stronger than Hacan economically.
Runner up for worst, Mageon implants from Yssaril. As if this race needed this tech. Makes a strong race that much stronger and plays to a racial strength. I plan to houserule this so that Yssaril discards AC of choice from opponents hand, instead of taking it. At 4R this ability is still a steal.
Last, Lizix inheritance systems. Expensive at 5R, but extremely useful. Type IV drives and duranium armor for dreads that cost 4 and hit on 4. Add Lizix FS and fleet is almost unbeatable. Considering nerfing this racial tech so that one can only skip 1 per-requisite at a +2R cost. Makes it more manageable.
Curious what others think.
Specifically, mirror computing strikes me as far too strong, especially when combined with Trade II. I understand that it does not make sense to ever trade with Mentak if they achieve mirror computing, but if the trade II card is in play (my preferred version of trade), it does not make much difference. 3TGx2=6R/I per turn is far to powerful to ignore. There is not much reason to take any other strategy card if trade II is in play. At 5R, the racial tech is spendy, but easily pays for itself in 1-2 turns. The last two games I had with Mentak, the pirates were achieving 15-20 resources every turn (w/trade station and trade II) through TGs and planets, vs. everyone else 6-10R. I think this needs a houserule. Specifically, a limit on TGs that can benefit with respect to how TGs are acquired. Like pirated, transfab'd, and trade station acquired TGs can achieve double value, with legitimately traded TGs keeping normal value (reflects crime possibilities better). Just a thought. Mentak with mirror comp are stronger than Hacan economically.
Runner up for worst, Mageon implants from Yssaril. As if this race needed this tech. Makes a strong race that much stronger and plays to a racial strength. I plan to houserule this so that Yssaril discards AC of choice from opponents hand, instead of taking it. At 4R this ability is still a steal.
Last, Lizix inheritance systems. Expensive at 5R, but extremely useful. Type IV drives and duranium armor for dreads that cost 4 and hit on 4. Add Lizix FS and fleet is almost unbeatable. Considering nerfing this racial tech so that one can only skip 1 per-requisite at a +2R cost. Makes it more manageable.
Curious what others think.
Let me ask you - who won those games? The races in question won all those times? Have anyone in your group won with Mindnet without using that racial tech? How about Mentak? Do they win everytime Trade II and their Racial tech is in play or at least come in strong second place?
I am asking this since I personally haven't seen any of the above being that big of the problems. Nobody at our table buying Mindnet tech anymore - it is quite high cost for techs you mention and type IV doesn't work for Flagship - it's easier to get other techs natural ways. It is still cool option but not all that amazing to be nerfed.
Mentak - it is cool tech, but again - if only thing you take every turn is trade strategy card - you will lose. No question about it. And it is expensive tech. Mentak without their new racial techs are not so grade late-game. I love to play them, but I haven't seen consistent winning streaks or table domination with those techs.
Yassari one - everyone knows they are insanely powerful - it's not cheap tech. I don't think taking it even out completely change the balance for Yassaril that much. It is indeed cool one to have - but even if you luck you get to use it 3-4 times. Usually less. (not that cheap to buy it first turn.) Unless you play for 14 point long war - game usually don't have that many turns.
That's just my opinon. I am not in any way saying that those techs are not cool. They are cool enough for people to consider getting them. There are tons of tech that are practically never used - but I rarely see people try to buff them. Seems like playing again someone not using something feels ok, seing something insanely cool - nerf knife. If question is balancing - why not try buffing other techs to match instead? Personally I am strong believer in leave it as is. Unless you have ability to playtest it at least 5-6 times without affecting players involved too much :)